Dishrag Diaries

1. 

   ShelbyMarch 1, 2013 - 6:30 am #1

   Hey there. Love reading your blog and man that picture in your about section is gorgeous! You go mom. Just curious about your philosophy on animal products. Why are you still using them when yu are such a major health but? I assume you have read amazing research like The China Study or even The Skinny Bitch. There is so much material that talks about the use of any animal products, even the super clean, pure and local ones, and how our body reacts to them and how hard it has to work to break them down. So it’s not just about eating clean animals, although of course if I use them, which I do for my kids occasionally (but never any dairy) I use grass fed and antibiotic free ones,it’s more what happens inside our bodies when we eat them. Did you knowit takes 3-5 days for our body to process any meat in your digestive track. It has to rot and ferment in there for that long in our 26 feet of intestines before it is passed. Yuck. The large wild animals like lions and others who are meat eaters in the world only have 6 feet of intestines so it’s easier for them to pass. Just curious about your thoughts. And i cant even talk about the dairy, theres so much around that withbjnflamation, cancer, mucus, acne, etc. not to mention the anger have towards our government that has brainwashed our entire country to think milk does a bidy good, all for money and at the expense of our children. Did you know that they see now saying that 1 in 4 people have a known dairy intolerance?! That is what we know, and that says it all for me. Amanda has told me so much about you and she has adopted much of the principals you tout and that’s awesome! We are all striving to be healthier selves I just was more interested in your reasoning behind using paleo and animal products.

   Also on a professional note, do you do any health coaching with people, besides this log of course. More on a professional level (meaning you earn money)? Hope you have a super awesome day, it’s March 1st, hope of spring has arrived.

2. 

   DishragDiaristMarch 2, 2013 - 12:42 pm #2

   Hi, Shelby! Thank you so much for your comment and questions. I particularly like when people comment on these non-post pages so I remember to look at them and update them; it’s been a while!

   I’m going to work backwards on your questions. I do some health coaching, usually consulting through our gym or other local health-minded businesses, along with some public speaking. I generally do not charge; This is a difficult area to navigate with legalities since I am not a certified dietician. There are some other certifications you can receive to do health coaching… It’s all sort of semantics, but at some point I’ll get all of that together… just not today.

   I truly appreciate your questions about animal products. This is a topic I should cover more, and while I will address some things here, I will need to do a more thorough posting on this in the future.

   There are numerous flaws with the China Study. In fact, the book The China Study is actually leaps and bounds from the actual peer reviewed papers on which it is based. One of Colin Campbell’s own papers finds that “…it is the largely vegetarian, inland communities who have the greatest all risk mortalities and morbidities and who have the lowest LDL cholesterols.” He consistently found cholesterol to be unrelated to cardiac disease, and found wheat – more than any other food – to be associated with higher insulin levels, higher triglycerides, coronary heart disease, stroke and hypertensive heart disease within the China Study data.

   Beyond the original papers, which are worth looking at, he cherry picked data in very blatant ways. (I believe EVERY study does this, that is why it is very important to understand the complete frame of the study before you give credibility to the results.) Among his own studies that he left out was one that found that EVERY complete protein (even a supplemented plant protein) was found increase tumor growth rates. (< --This is within the confines of the study environment, which I also think was a problem because it so greatly exceeded real-life aflatoxin exposure.)

   I don't want to harp on the China Study too much, but I want to borrow a quote from Denise Minger: "An examination of the original China Study data shows virtually no statistically significant correlation between any type of cancer and animal protein intake.18 Only fish protein correlates positively, but probably non-causally, with a small number of cancers: nasopharyngeal cancer, a rare disease that only strikes one out of every seven million people; liver cancer, which shows up in fish-eating regions because aflatoxin proliferates in humid areas near water; and leukemia, which is likely linked to other elements of the industrialized lifestyles associated with coastal regions (and thus fish consumption) in the China Study.

   "Ironically, when we look at plant protein— which The China Study argues so vigorously is cancer-protective—we find almost three times as many positive correlations with various cancers as we do with animal protein, including colon cancer, rectal cancer, and esophageal cancer.20 Likewise, for heart disease and stroke, plant protein has a positive correlation while animal protein and fish protein have negative or nearly neutral correlations—meaning the animal-food eaters in rural China, if anything, are getting less cardiovascular disease than their more vegetarian friends."

   As to the specifics of dairy, I agree it's near epidemic importance our dairy crisis. US dairies are disgusting, inhumane and unnatural. Pasteurized milk is a completely dangerous and denatured product, which I would never consume. I believe these conditions and the processing and treatment of our milk are the largest causes of the prevalent dairy intolerance (along with gut dysbiosis - see below). Raw dairy from a clean, humane dairy is an excellent food source for people with healthy gut colonies.

   I do believe that avoiding dairy for a time to allow the gut to heal (along with other things) is necessary for a large percentage of the population because we're so screwed up! My daughter is currently dairy-free for this reason.

   The idea of meat rotting in our intestines is not really accurate. In fact, we have a much harder time digesting plant materials such as legumes and grains, and that is why I dedicate much of this blog to encouraging proper preparation (essentially pre-digestion) of this foods. We can digest - to some extent - plants like starches and disaccharides (neither of which are super good for us but prevent starving), but we can't digest cellulose as herbivores can. I don't want to go into a long description of the digestive process but their isn't a rotting process. First acids do their work, then salts and enzymes in the small intestine, and then in the large intestine proteases break down meat protein, and bile salts and lipase break down animal fat, almost completely. The primary reason we need our gut bacteria is to digest the sugars, starches, and fiber—found in grains, beans, and vegetables—that our digestive enzymes can’t break down. I thought you also might find this (admittedly gross) blog post interesting.

   I hope this is making sense, I’m trying to type quickly. This subject is very near to my heart as my sister is a vegetarian. (I was, too, as a teenager.)

   I study the work of Dr. Weston A. Price, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, who studied the diets of primitive but varied healthy traditional societies. He did not find one in vibrant health that did not incorporate animal products. It’s fascinating to read if you’re interested.

   Other things you might want to look at:
   The works of Denise Minger, mentioned above, and Chris Masterjohn.
   The unfolding story of renowned vegan Alex Jamieson who has just recently given up veganism.

   The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability (This is more about earth impact than digestion.)

   Again, this is a large topic, but hopefully these thoughts will be helpful to you. Oh! And thank you for your kind words on the picture .

3. 

   DishragDiaristMarch 2, 2013 - 12:54 pm #3

   By the way, I’m sorry the html tags aren’t looking pretty up there. I’ve tried to fix them… Stupid computers. The links still work .

4. 

   ShelbyMarch 8, 2013 - 7:07 am #4

   Thanks so much for your in depth response and ll the resources. I so have a lot more research to do, always learning and growing right!! I will try to spend some time on those things you mentioned. And I will keep you posted on my professional progress. Any help/advice you can give along the way will be great, I live your blog and you!

   I do eat seafood although I try to get the most natural product I can get my hands on and sometimes that means farm raised but organic fed fish. I feel like I need a little of that in my life. I agree out dairy industry is disgusting. Even orga it milk I think is subject to some of that due to increased demand for their products. Will be I retesting to see where that goes over the next few years. There isn’t a farmer with a bucket milking a cow on those farms either. I thought the china study indications about dairy and how it affects us on a cellular level. I know that for us our bodies feel healthier without it. Our kids are extremely healthy and rarely even get colds of course they do occasionally but they are able to fight them off very well.

   I know that when Ryan and I do get some in our system we have minor reactions with skin irruptions or digestion and neither one if us ever had a “problem or intolerance” with dairy. So for us that’s an easy one. I do but good organic chicken to feed the kids but I really can’t get my head around eating it at all and I haven’t had red meat in years. I really don’t feel I need it and I don’t miss it. I do love fish and shellfish. But even that we have about once or twice a week. And eggs, well what can I say they are just disgusting. The skinny butch ruined my chances of ever being able to eat eggs again once I learned and really thought about what they were, the reproductive organ of another animal!

   I do also feel strongly about the ecologoc footprint of eating animals. The amount of natural resources that are consumed and used to support factory farming is astronomical and I just don’t like how much power the dairy, beef, pork and sugar farmers are allowed to have I our governmt. And of course people say well we eat grass fed and non GMO meats and foods and that’s great. But most people don’t and won’t because of the expense or just lack of knowledge. So in terms of educating its almost imperative to help the federal public what goes on in factory farming and how our very own government had brainwashed us through the good pyramid and heavily finds advertising that their ways are best.

   I worry even that the product I am using now like coconut and almond milk will eventuay so comb to those dollars because of increasing demand. Will they be able to sustain themselves in a market with heavy demand without genetically modifying the crops to grow bigger and faster? Man I hope so.

   The digestion information you referred to is interesting to me. One thing we know is that our digestion is great with less animals. We drink nutrient packed homemade green juice every day as well as lots of other vegetables and beans. Our tracts flow very well. I don’t find that I eat many breads anymore (I try not to but this is a big weakness for me) and I try to ad the high quality whole grains when I can. I need more information here you got kind of scientific on me (which I love)! But let me see if in understand what you are saying, basically you feel out bodies digest and process meat and animal products better than vegetables and beans? That is completely opposite of everything i have ever read? Interesting.

   Thanks ago am for your help and support along this crazy journey of mine! We are always learning aren’t we. Inwill take some time to look those links and research you directed me too! Thanks again

5. 

   DishragDiaristMarch 8, 2013 - 9:01 am #5

   Thanks for reading it all!

   You cracked me up about the eggs. My vegetarian sister will now sometimes eat eggs, but she also gags when she thinks about what they are. It is all perspective, though. Since I try to stick to “tip to tail” eating, and I think organ meats are even more nutritious than muscle meats, it doesn’t really gross me out.

   As to seafood, I would still encourage you to find wild-caught. There is only one truly healthy sustainable seafood I’ve ever heard of, and it was in Europe somewhere (I can’t find the location now). If you can’t find it locally or through a buying club, try Vital Choice or US Wellness Meats (<–you can also buy high quality organic chicken, etc., there if you don’t have access to a farm).

   Yes, I agree, my comments about industrial dairy farming apply to organic brands as well. I happen to buy from a farm where there actually is a guy with a bucket, but I think humane farms can use mechanical milking to an extent. It’s more about treatment, feed, husbandry, access to outside, continued contact of mothers/calves, no hormones/ antibiotics, etc. I would be interested to see if you or your husband react to clean, raw dairy.

   I think that the ecological footprint of industrial meat production is definitely something to worry about. But I think this has been unjustly grouped with all farming. There is lots of great research (pioneering works by VA farmer Joel Salatin, for one) about how enriching to the earth and environmental REAL farming can be. Also, that last book I mentioned above may be of interest to you on this topic. (Methane gas from cows is one thing that is always mentioned; This is non nearly such a dangerous issue with healthy cows being treated and fed they way they should be!)

   I agree entirely with the corrupt base of power, and how those industries control government policy.

   Yes, I was saying that a healthy digestive tract (that is key) is better able to digest animal products than plant products. Not that plant products are bad, but we have difficulty extracting nutrients from them, especially without certain preparations. We are designed to eat and digest meat. I personally avoid true green smoothies because of oxalate and goitrogen issues (I have had a kidney stone and never want to again, and am also fanatical about protecting my thyroid) but will occasionally have a green smoothie at home if I have the opportunity to cook my greens first.

   Back to digesting meat. Starting with our saliva and then our stomachs, we have enzymes that easily break down animal proteins (along with hydrochloric acid). In the small intestine, bile and lipase take care of fats and trypsin and chymotrypsin break down proteins. There are some enzymes here that begin to work on some starches and some sugars. (Already, absorption of some free fatty acids and amino acids is happening.) In the large intestine – last stage – is where we have to bulk of our bacteria to finally break down what our enzymes can’t: sugars, starches, and fiber—found in grains, beans, and vegetables. The bacteria actually digests these things. Some of the waste of that bacteria can be absorbed. (Speaking of the waste of this, other waste products are methane and carbon dioxide – that’s why those foods make you have gas, especially if not properly prepared.) So, we actually absorb the bacteria waste rather than the actual plant product. (But what we absorb is generally good for us.)

   The bulk of plant products is cellulose, which we can’t digest in any way. This is fiber that we pass through (why temporary veggie fast can be helpful in cleaning things out!). Even herbivores have trouble digesting this, that’s why they are designed with ways to make up for this (like the extra stomach and cud chewing of ruminants, or the double-digesting of rabbits).

   Great conversation! I may have to make this into a post at some point!

6. 

   DishragDiaristMarch 8, 2013 - 9:05 am #6

   One more note: I published a vegan recipe today, haha. Thought of you!

7. 

   ShelbyMarch 8, 2013 - 10:35 am #7

   Ok so now I am really confused. I feel like you are on the complete opposite spectrum of everything I have done. And man you are on smart cookie and a great responder!! So what about all of the Kris Carr’s and raw foodists and skinny bitches ou there? And the fact that many nutrition e peers are touting more raw
   Fruits and vegetables, less cooked foods etc? I am so confused. And the green smoothies packed with nutrient rich greens, lemon, cucumbers carrots celery flax are not digestible??

   I happen to love Kris Carr and her crazy sexy diet stuff and documentary and I feel like right now my missionis health and cancer prevention. I don’t know if you know her.

   I can tell you inwill never eat animal organs! Nor will infest out the raw milk theory, what about the countries that don’t use milk at all and are much healthier than us and don’t get cancer. Man I am realizing I have a lot more reSearch and learning to do. My school materials are being shipped today I look forward to it. And our conversation is timely in a personal way too (I love it in every way by the way) because lately I feel like something is missing for me (I don’t think it’s animals at this point), I am a runner (usually 30-35 miles a week) plus cross training the other days, pretty sure I can’t work out anymore and I do take good care in the food department although not perfect Nd I struggle with afternoon snacking no matter how hard I try, but I can’t loose any weight. I also know that my hormones are changes (even though I’m 37 my holistic physician believes that’s not to early to start menopause), my progesterone has been low for a whole and for the past year I have been taking a natural hormone supplement mixed a the pharmacy my doctors uses and my testosterone levels went from 21 to 12 in a year. Very annoying but apparently nature at work. Sorry for all that I just feel like I should have less body fat but its been a struggle lately.

   Anyway thanks for your thought I live it!

8. 

   DishragDiaristMarch 8, 2013 - 12:19 pm #8

   I understand. As I always say, nutritional science is all over the map. So really, I’m not try to sound like a know-it-all, just share what I’ve come to find out. There are certainly very educated people sharing the opposite message of what I am. We each have to figure out what makes sense to us. (As an aside, while I do think there are universal truths about nutrition, each person/ body is different AND a lot depends on our genetics and heredity, in my opinion.)

   I think part of the reason this can sound so shocking to you is we all tend to read things that line up with what we think. So, you as a vegetarian or vegan tend to read things that are along the same philosophical lines. There is actually a lot of information to the contrary, but you may not have been exposed to it yet. (I do the same thing. Case in point, I had to google Kris Carr! So I really can’t speak to her stuff, except to guess that I’d disagree with her ).

   I do think that raw food is OK as a small part of our diet. But yes, I think it is difficult to digest and we don’t absorb all of the nutrients they contain without preparation. Now, keep this in mind: Juicing or high-powered blending IS essentially pre-digestion for fruits and vegetables. It does aide in absorption and digestion. Some veggies – carrots for instance – have such dense cell walls that they would need at least a little cooking to make them absorbable (< ---apparently that's not a word!). That's not to say my kids never eat raw carrots, they do. They like them. But we'll eat them cooked, too, and I know they're receiving more nutrients from them. Most foods ARE better for you closest to their natural state. But not all, not for all people, and not to make up an entire diet. (As I mentioned, I don't eat oxalate-containing veggies raw because I don't want to risk another kidney stone. Perhaps someone without this history wouldn't worry quite so much.) However, I do have a raw salad almost every day, and strive to eat more than one! (I make sure to eat it with healthy fat, though, to help absorb those fat-soluble vitamins.)

   There is so much to answer, but I want to keep answers short... But it's hard to do! For instance, flax is good, but hard to digest if not ground. I do sometimes use flax seed meal, but I think it is something to limit as it can affect hormone processes.

   As to cultures that do not drink raw milk: That is very true. In Dr. Price's research (book recommended above) he found very, very different cultures that had desired healthy attributes: longevity, healthy teeth and bone structure, low to no infant or maternal mortality, low to no mental illness, etc. Not all of these drank milk from any mammals (besides human mothers!). I don't think it's a necessity, I think it is SAFE in it's raw form and I think it can be a very good fill-in for what is missing in most American's diets. I will note that with all of the varied diets, he did not find one healthy society that did not consume animal products. He came up with "sacred foods" that were common to all of the varied groups.

   Probably the culture that consumed the least actual meat was the Scot Highlanders, particularly in the winter. They would consume dairy, though, and even though they consumed a lot of oats, they had a long process of preparation that including long-fermenting and long-cooking (essentially pre-digestion). When seasonal, though, they prized, seafoods, organ meats and other animal products.

   Here in America and other industrialized nations, people eat way less meat, dairy and butter than they did 100 years ago, but way more sugar, corn syrup, white flour, hydrogenated vegetable oils, artificial flavorings, preservatives and other processed foods. I believe this - along with factory farming which we've already covered - has led to the increase in cancer and other disease epidemics (along with environmental factors).

   Wow, I'm always impressed with distance runners. That is a strain on your body, though. (I do think people should be that active! Just need to provide enough for the body!) As a distance runner you can and should consume more carbs than someone at a different activity/ intensity level, but I would worry about getting enough protein and fat! Afternoon snacking is sometimes a sign of L-Glutamine or possibly chromium. Julia Ross's work is very good (The Diet Cure and even The Mood Cure). You might find them helpful.

   If you eat a lot of soy as most vegetarians do, that affects hormones greatly. Reading some things by Kaayla Daniel (The Whole Soy Story or various online articles) would be good research for you.

   I do think that the digestive ramifications of a vegetarian diet could certainly lead to stored body fat, as could consumption of soy (I only consume fermented soy, and in condiment amounts). Adding probiotic foods to your diet, and possibly a probiotic supplement, could help but is not enough… If I were counseling you, I would look to a diet change. I have seen so many vegetarians with low-fat diets and excess stored body fat. (Also, I’m assuming sugar consumption is not an issue with you. If it is, that’s another whole component.)

   I’m actually getting my testosterone tested as well, and will probably start some herbal supplements soon. The problem is that we moms usually feed our families wonderful, healthy foods and neglect ourselves. I’m trying to remedy that; Sounds like you’re trying to work on you, too! Good work!

9. 

   DishragDiaristMarch 8, 2013 - 12:22 pm #9

   Oh, I knew I had one more thing to add. Other deficiencies common to vegetarians could be vitamins A, D, K, B2, B6 and B12, some of the amino acids, DHA and EFA fatty acids and minerals like calcium, zinc and CoQ10. I would also add magnesium just because most Americans are deficient. If you don’t find what you’re looking for, maybe discuss some testing for these with your practitioner?

10. 

    ShelbyMarch 8, 2013 - 4:10 pm #10

    Oh I forgot to mention too that I had my antioxidant levels checked by my chiropractor who bought the biophotinic scanner and they were 53,000. It was on the low end of the highest level (blue). I assume from all the plants I eat! My moms was awful likely of America (in the red)! Don’t know if you know about his at all. I haven’t done hard core research just read a little about it and it was on dr I too. Not sure i really like the company that makes it and sells the supplements they use to help your body absorb the antioxidants better from te food you eat.

    Hey also One more thing while I have your ear. Are you familiar with pure essentials supements? They are pharmaceutical grade vitamins and we had been using them for a while at he direction of my (vegetarian) acupuncturist! She is an amazing guru in my life!!

11. 

    ShelbyMarch 8, 2013 - 8:35 pm #11

    BTW its Pure Encapsulations vitamens not essentials. Too much typing on my cell phone. Also I looked up those two supplements L-Glutamine and Chromium and seems they really help people with the sugar and carb cravbings whis is what happens to me at 3:00!! HA. Would you recommend a product brand for those?

    Thanksa gain for all you have done. I am wondering if you should be getting paid for all this! You really should get on that. Perhaps you should coach me, maybe I could pay you for professional coaching, but not sure you can handle me with my lack of interest in animal products! I am so glad God has blessed me with you in my life. Keep up your good work!

12. 

    ShelbyMarch 12, 2013 - 2:06 pm #12

    Did you get tired of me?? Can’t imagine why, ha ha! Thanks again for all your input I did read a bunch of the links you sent and some info on Weston price. My school supplies arrived yesterday so looking forward to getti g started! Will probably take a really long time but that’s fine! Grat post about Easter! Totally here about all the holiday crap the kids are given! Enjoy your day!

13. 

    DishragDiaristMarch 22, 2013 - 3:48 pm #13

    Hi, Shelby! Finally catching up. I’ll try to go in order. So, as to Pure Encapsulations, I have to admit I don’t know much about them. Basically, I think with any company you need to look at it product by product. For instance, their B12 supplement is not sublingal (which would be best) but it is the correct form of b12. On the other hand, some of their DHA supplements are poop.

    Scanning for antioxidant levels is fairly new to me, so I shouldn’t comment too much… It’s great that your levels were high, and I agree it’s probably due to high veggie consumption. It might surprise you after these messages but I actually eat quite a few veggies myself!

    I would recommend this brand of L-Glutamine. As you can see, it’s pretty cheap, but it’s a good one! I’d actually probably start with the same brand of chromium.

    Shelby, I consider you a blessing, too! What a chance to exercise my nutrition chops .

    I’m glad you are reading some of the links, I known it’s all a lot. When reading about WAPF, make sure to read varied sources. I’ve read a lot of bunk about them.

    Cheers! (And I hope your kids fared well on Easter without too much crap!)

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